Goldfish (gasp! Fish questions!)

[Amber]

Greetings,
Preparing for the next school year, I've volunteered to help another teacher set up a tank in her preschool classroom. I have years of experience with tropicals and cichlids, but this lady would like to do fancy goldfish, so I need some advice.
The tank is a 55, with two Emperor filters, 36" of airstones on a big Tetra Deepwater pump. Substrate is coarse natural gravel and flourite, as she'd like to do plants. Which leads me to the first question:
How badly are orandas going to wreck plants? :D I was planning on putting a plastic grid under the gravel, to give them something to latch onto; maybe even thread the roots of the slimmer plants down through it. I'm picturing lots and lots of tall Valls; maybe jungle? And an anubias or two in front. Doable?
Water temp: Is 70 is okay for goldfish, or is it too warm? I'd like to put in some algae eaters; preferably ancistrus, so I need to find a happy medium, temp-wise.
Chemistry: I know I should add some salt, but how much? And do I need the special "goldfish salt" or can I use some of the 5g drum of Instant Ocean I got a good deal on? :lol: And what's the best PH for these critters?
Anything else I should know?
Any input would be most appreciated.
Thanks,
DJ

[TJcanada]

Hey DJ,

Stocking = 1 fancy per 20gals for better (easier) care & upkeep - minimum would be 10 gals per fish but you'd have to make up for it with good (excellent) filtering and water exchanges regularly. (a filter rated for a 55 gallon isn't gonna cut it for goldfish... triple it up)

Plants = need some tough foliage; like Anubias varieties, Java fern, Bacopa Caroliniana or Monnieri, Pennywort, etc. Easy care,.. have these in my 100 gallon atm with several small longfin koi - if these can make it with koi they can handle goldfish :D Best to have larger stone (1.5" to 3" river rock) surrounding the root base as they will dig up 'pebble' substrate to forage the roots. Small fine gravel substrates should be avoided, larger pea stone should be used. Bare bottom tanks are best ideally with potted plants if plants are wanted.

Fancy goldfish are 'temperate' fish, as are all goldfish (carp), they also thrive in conditioned 'seasons'. Optimal temp for Fancies is a tad warmer than commons... 74F to 78F for "summer", about 65F to 72F for "spring & fall", and for "winter" a cozy 60F to 62F. But if you don't want to get that technical then 75-76F is a good temp for fancies year round.

Algae eaters and goldfish are typically a no no... for many reasons, especially with Fancy goldfish. Oto's can't handle the waterQ in a GF tank, most other "algae eaters" also like the slime coat of other fish and fancy gf are easy targets,.... BN pleco's can be housed with gf fairly well so I've found.

Salt is not needed unless you have to treat for ICH or some other parasite. There tends to be enough salt in local water supply for the fish to get on with it. No salt,.. got it ;)

Goldfish, like all carp, require max saturation of oxygen... the bigger they get the more they need it ... extra circulation is important (air stones/bubble wall/etc)

Fancy GF are prone to air bladder issues... diet plays an important part and also how the food is offered. Avoid flake foods. Pellets are better, pre-soak in tank water before feeding. Special treats like blood worms, shrimp, watermelon, oranges, etc can be offered once to twice a week. Goldfish are omnivorous so variety is key for a balanced diet.

All I can think of atm.... Have fun with the set up :)

[Amber]

Thanks! Can't wait to get this going; I think the anklebiters will love it! :D

[Tc2]

I tried to respond earlier and basically got booted. Gonna try a shorter post. I basically agree with TJ, with a few additions - more plants such as duckweed and watersprite for them to munch on at their leasure. I use sponge filters for my wifes fancy carp when I bring them in for the winter (I'm not big on relying on manmade filters, prefer to keep the water quality maintained with light stocking, live plants, small feedings and water changes, but water movement is very important which is one reason I like sponges). Also, as far as food, almost anything you can grow can be used, maybe the kids can grow food for their fish in the classroom. Just a thought.

[Don D]

Pretty much aggree as well. Room temp will do fine IME. Last Orandas I had stayed pretty much around 72.

Plants are gonna get wrecked. Even the tough ones will get pulled on and rearranged. At least thats been the case in every GF tank I have had. Perhaps they didnt appreciate my aquascaping. LOL

Anacharis makes a great throw away plant for GF. The eat it and it grows fairly quick so it may be able to keep up with the munching. Hornwort also tends to do well with them.

And definately, NO SALT.

[Tc2]

Our carp don't seem to bother hornwort at all. Maybe it's because of all the duckweed when they're indoors or the other "natural" foods when they're outside.

[Amber]

Thanks for all the input. Looks like it'll be hornwort and probably a lot of plastique. :rolleyes: I do have a couple of nice pieces of driftwood with java fern growing on it; if the Afriggins don't eat it, I guess nothing will? Might try that.
The goldfish 55 is Sherry's baby, but I do need to resolve my plant thing with my fish thing. :D I have six big Bahia Red Geos in a 55 here at home, WITH plants. They dig 'em up, I replant, they dig 'em up, I replant. Bigger rocks around the roots every time. Entertaining for all involved, in a sick way, I guess. And the five big synos in the 150 chomp up all the new growth on the anubias.
Right now my best tank here at home is a 10g, planted to the max, with Galaxy Rasboras and Brigittaes. Six bitty ancistrus for a cleanup crew. It's the one tank I can look at and not fret about what I should do next.

[Caiman]

Don, I would just like to point out, that you could replace the Goldfish with Rattlesnakes for a more dramatic effect. You could even eliminate the filtration and all that pesky water.

You could further replace the tank, with a pit, and add even more rattlesnakes, and it then also becomes a useful deterrent for bad behavior. Instead of sending the kids to detention....an hour in the pit of rattlesnakes would be much more...dramatic.

[Tc2]

Caiman, it's so heartwarming the way you are concerned about the younguns, always putting them first, but you forgot one very important safety aspect. The kids should not be wearing shoes while in the pit.

[Amber]

Caiman, you obviously don't know a lot about preschoolers. Those poor snakes would be slithering toward the door just as fast as they could go.
The P.E. teacher kept a few black widows in a jar in his office. I'd always wondered what they were for. :cool:

[Caiman]

Caiman, it's so heartwarming the way you are concerned about the younguns, always putting them first, but you forgot one very important safety aspect. The kids should not be wearing shoes while in the pit.

Of course, shoes could hurt the poor snakes!